Tuning problem on 5 & 10 for a sho bud pro 2

[Ricky Davis]

Does it make sense to cut the wire on the barrel adjuster of that one right off as the stop on the C pedal has to be hand tuned (atleast that’s what I’m doing) then it can’t catch on anything and might be easier to tune ?

No don't ever cut a spring tip off flush on barrel; then yes; you will have to hand tune and that makes it much harder to hand tune with another barrel on that rod; that's a big NO.
I just like a spring tip that is just enough length to catch the puller/roller.
Ricky

[Ryan Forster]

I took out the 10th string rod and filed that part a little and replaced the rod with one that may be straighter, it looks like that helped for sure. Now for some reason my 5th string A pedal raise seems to go slightly flat (not a ton but a little) but it is making a sound at the changer and I think after the naptha bath I might need to oil the pivot joints on the scissor better. I will also look at filing that one a bit if I notice any friction at the changer. Also I notice the bellcranks for the E-F#raise and B raise (C pedal) are tight up against eachother and it’s possible they are rubbing up against eachother when either the A or C pedal is engaged. I might try and move them just slightly apart so they aren’t touching. Progress is being made

[Ricky Davis]

Also I notice the bell cranks for the E-F#raise and B raise (C pedal) are tight up against each other and it’s possible they are rubbing up against each other when either the A or C pedal is engaged. I might try and move them just slightly apart so they aren’t touching.

Yes if the rollers that the rod goes through are touching at C pedal 4th and 5th strings? that is BAD....those rollers need to have ZERO FRICTION as the rod runs through them, because as they get pulled; they change degrees and will cause that small binding of the rod.....boooooom that sounds like the whole 5th string rod prob. Continue on brother.
Ricky

[Ryan Forster]

Should the barrel adjusters be pretty close up to the bell crank to reduce movement? I know they can’t be touching (overtuned) or else you can’t tune it but should I reduce the travel as much as possible to help with tuning stability? I read something you posted on another thread about how that can cause it to go out of tune , although that was a rack and barrel system I am assuming it’s similar?

[Ricky Davis]

Ryan I answered your/this question in PM you sent with:

"Yes I like the barrel up against puller when I put it on; and adjust the amount of throw with the stop for the cross bar pulling that barrel. the octave lower string on that same cross bar; will have a smidge of slack cause it doesn't take as much pull to pull the lower octave than the higher one.
But too much slack for barrels only ads inconsistent hitting of the barrel and flex tension of the rod.
Ricky"

[Ryan Forster]

Thanks to you two I have got this old sho bud pretty damn close to where it needs to be by doing all the things you mentioned as well as shifting some stuff underneath for smoother travel. I have a question now about the D lever lower, my G# and B strings seem to go decently sharp when I use the D lower. Is this just normal cabinet drop stuff that I need to compensate for or is there something else going on?
Been great to really get to know this barrel system better and learn a ton, I only got it in the summer so there is so much to figure out but I am grateful for knowledgeable folks such as yourselves and to the forum in general for the guidance.

[Lane Gray]

To see if it's cabinet drop or changer movement, watch the G# and B string changer bars and make sure they stay put.

In addition, I've found two primary causes of cabinet drop in my guitars:
First is pushing too hard on pedals and knees: any energy you put in after you hit the stops has to go someplace, and sometimes it's the strings.
Second is, especially on older guitars, screws holding the body together have gotten looser, and the body flexes. You don't want to strip out the holes in the wood, but you want them snug.

[Ryan Forster]

Yah still not having any luck with the 5 & 10 string not eventually going flat as i play but also returning to pitch when i stop playing for a minute.
I’ve tried
-putting tighter springs on the lowers
-moving rods (even replacing a couple) for straight travel
-filing out the exit end of the changer so it wont rub
-lubricating
-shifting (and replacing ) some of the barrel adjusters to make sure I’m not over tuned
-tightening all screws i could see (they were all pretty tight)
-made sure the roller nut isn’t stiff and is lubed

I probably missed some stuff but i just can’t figure it out and i really want to love this old Bud but it’s hard to enjoy playing it when those notes drift out of tune. I will do the last thing i haven’t done and that is completely take apart the changer and clean it out (hopefully i can get it back together). If this doesn’t work I can’t seem to think of anything else that it could be. I did order some of the Grover tuners in the off chance it is that as this is a 73’ but that is kind of a Hail Mary at this point.

[Ryan Forster]

Maybe I forgot to note the the A pedal raise to the C# seems to stay in tune when I press it down even if the B note when released drifts flat. If that makes any sense?